Network with Confidence: Overcoming Social Anxiety and Interaction Overload

Season 5, Episode 10 Details

Guest: Shideh Doerr, CEO & Chief Magician Officer, JabberYak

Do you struggle with social anxiety? Shideh Doerr, CEO & Chief Magician Officer at JabberYak, discusses how to feel more comfortable when networking and shares tips to keep your social battery charged. 

Listen now:

Podcast sponsored by Visit Atlantic City. 

Listen to more Dare to Interrupt podcasts: www.MeetingsToday.com/Dare-to-Interrupt.

Meet Our Guest

I’m a wife, mom of three boys (all human!) and one labradoodle girl, and a daughter, sister, friend, entrepreneur, strategist and volunteer.

As a first-generation Persian-American, my parents immigrated to the U.S. in the 1970s and I was the only girl, the monkey in the middle between my two brothers. After spending 25-plus years in healthcare administration, I was ready for a new adventure. That's when JabberYak came into the picture, and it was a perfect fit for my love of connecting people. 

Even as a natural social butterfly (thanks to my culture), I know how awkward it can be to walk into a room full of strangers. At JabberYak, we’re all about breaking the ice and making networking fun, helping event planners foster meaningful connections. I’m always eager to grow as a resource in the event industry and can’t wait to learn, share and help shape its future. And of course, I'm excited to bring the gift of gab back to every conversation and create those lifelong bonds.

Connect with Shideh: 

LinkedIn 
Instagram: @shahidehdoerr
Facebook
Website

More About Our Host

Courtney believes that transforming past experiences into impactful conversations through raw, authentic storytelling challenges the status quo, connects people from all walks of life and results in great change for the world.

Courtney is the youngest member to have ever been elected to Meeting Professionals International’s (MPI) International Board of Directors.

She is the recipient of Smart Meetings’ Entrepreneur Award, MeetingsNet’s Changemaker Award, the Association for Women in Events (AWE) Disruptor Award, the MPI Chairman’s Award and MPI RISE Award.

Named Collaborate and Connect Magazine’s 40 under 40 and a Meetings Today Trendsetter.

Recognized as one of the event industry’s most impactful change-makers, Courtney serves on the Events Industry Sexual Harassment Task Force, AWE’s Board of Directors, MPI’s Women’s Advisory Board, is a Meetings Mean Business Ambassador and is the co-founder of the award-winning movement, #MeetingsToo.

Courtney was named as a 2020 Meetings Trendsetter by Meetings Today.

Connect with Courtney:
Website
LinkedIn
Instagram: @courtneyonstage
Twitter: @courtneyonstage
Facebook

Transcript:

Editors note: The following transcription was facilitated by AI program Otter.ai and proofed by our editors. Although it is very accurate, there inevitably will be some mistakes, so please consider that when reading. Thank you.

Courtney Stanley
This episode is brought to you by Visit Orlando. Hello everybody. This is Courtney Stanley, and welcome to another exciting episode of Dare to Interrupt, the only podcast made by women for women in the world of events, hospitality, tourism and beyond. 

We hope you feel empowered as you listen in on honest, unfiltered conversations with leaders who are considered to be the most influential, inspiring and innovative women in business today. Throughout their careers, these leaders have dared to interrupt conversations, their own comfort zones and sometimes even societal norms, to hustle toward their greatest levels of success. 
I am beyond thrilled to welcome today's guest to the show here with us today. We have Shideh Doerr, Chief Magician Officer at JabberYak. Welcome Shideh. How are you?

Shideh Doerr
Hi, Courtney. I'm doing great. I'm so excited to be here with you today.

Courtney Stanley  
I'm excited too, and I'm excited to see you in Vegas for IMEX.

Shideh Doerr
I know. Are you ready?

Courtney Stanley
Yeah, I feel ready. I think this year is a little bit lighter. My schedule is a little bit lighter. It's still, you know, hectic and chaotic as all IMEX schedules are, but it just feels, I don't know… I feel a little bit lighter going into the show. I'm excited.

Shideh Doerr
I would love to trade places with you.

Courtney Stanley 
Yeah, are you doing appointments?

Shideh Doerr
We are doing appointments. I have meetings outside the appointments we are presenting on the tech educational stage. So a lot going on which we're really excited about. I mean, I'm excited to meet new friends, see old friends, get to see you. It's going to be fun.

Courtney Stanley 
It is going to be fun. It is definitely going to be fun. And I always think it's funny that people use the hashtag #Imexcited before they go, and then afterward they use #Imexhausted, and I feel like that just makes complete sense to me. And for those of you listening, IMEX is a tradeshow for professionals in the tourism, hospitality and meetings industry, and by the time this airs, it'll be done, so we'll be exhausted by the time this comes out, but hopefully replenished at the same time.

Shideh Doerr
Does she know that hashtag?

Courtney Stanley
Yeah, exactly, exactly. I would love to just learn a little bit more about your journey. I would love for you to share just, you know, some personal bits and professional bits and how you ended up leading in the events industry today.

Shideh Doerr   
Yeah, so my journey is probably a little atypical for the event space. I have spent about 28-plus years in healthcare as an administrator. I did my Master's in healthcare administration from The Ohio State University. I was probably an overachiever back then. I worked with the Department of Public Health and created a physicians free clinic, and worked full time. Worked with a classmate of mine. We created a management service organization for women's health in Columbus, Ohio, the first of its kind in the United States. 

So, fun adventure, as you could tell, though my background. I always love starting things.
So, I think the challenge is something that excites me. But I think after 27 years of being in the healthcare arena…I started getting tired, a little burned out, and this was pre-COVID, so I took a little break to try and figure out what direction I wanted my career to go into. And I am a first generation Persian American, and our culture is all about people and making people feel welcomed, engaging with them, having them be seen and heard and feel comfortable. And along the way, I met this great friend of mine, and her and I got to talking one day, and it was like, “Okay, how do we get people engaged?” And she had this idea for JabberYak that she had been working on, and she was just like, you know, I need to refine this, and I need to get this out there, but I need some help doing it. What are you doing right now? 

And I said, “Well, I'm on a break right now, trying to figure out what to do with my life.” And she's like, “Why don't you come on board and join me as a partner, and let's figure this out.”

So, Gail Leventhal and I went down this path of trying to figure out what the best way to get people engaged and connected would be, and we came up with the concept of the seven degrees of interest with JabberYak, and we got our third partner on board, who is our technology partner. He has had a couple startups in his lifetime under his belt, so he helped us with the technology piece of it. And you know, my passion of getting people connected and helping people and engaging with people gets to be brought to work with me every single day. 
I feel blessed to be doing something that I'm so passionate about and that I love.

Courtney Stanley 

Okay, I feel like there's so much here. First of all, I'm stuck on the fact that you're from Michigan and you went to Ohio State. That was like, I have to revisit so many things that you have talked about. So, how were you welcomed into that community.

Shideh Doerr 
Well, it's so funny because I was wondering what your facial expression was at that moment when I said it was very much alike.

Courtney Stanley  
Huh? Okay, yeah, I need I have questions, yeah…

Shideh Doerr  
Well, it gets better. So, I actually started my graduate program out at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, and I transferred to the Iowa State University. Yeah, and I was the only one in my family—so my entire family, they are all Michigan alumni. 
In fact, my dad and mom, when they would come visit us in Arizona, they would bring the kids Michigan gear. And I remember so vividly one day, my kids ran into the kitchen crying. They'd open the front door for my parents, and they came in the kitchen crying. And I looked at my older son, and he must have been maybe eight years old at the time, nine. And I was like, “Dude, what's wrong?” And he's like, “Mom, mommy….mommy just brought me this stupid hat, and I looked at it, and looked at it, and it was the University of Michigan hat, and he's like, “What is wrong with them? Why do they keep bringing us Michigan stuff?” 
And, yeah, it was, I mean, Ohio loved me because I crossed over. Michigan did not love me so much when I would come back home.

Courtney Stanley
Oh my gosh. I want to get into this clinic that you opened as well, and you said it was  for women's health. I mean, what was that like? You said you got a little bit, you know, burned out at the end…you did it for, you know, more than two decades. What was that experience like and how is life different now than when you were in that chapter?

Shideh Doerr
You know, back then, I saw life, and I saw I had so much positivity in me that I just wanted to make a difference. I wanted to help people. And, you know, as an administrator in healthcare, you do get to help people, but you don't get to see it right. 

As a healthcare provider, you help people on a daily basis, you help them get better, you diagnose them, you bring them back to health. And as an administrator, you have to worry about the bottom line and providing services to the community, but you don't get to see it in the patient's eyes and their faces. 

So, to me, it was really fun to partner with my classmates and work really hard to pull together this physicians free clinic, and we would rotate through different specialists through the clinic, and we were able to get donations from pharmaceutical companies to give them some of the medications and things that they needed at the time, which was great. 

And then the women's health part was a management service organization. So, we brought together all of the OBGYN practices within the state of Ohio. We put them under an MSO, not all of them, but a good majority of them. We got a DOJ ruling that allowed us to grow up to a certain amount, and it was great, because we were able to really increase kind of some women health issues, raise some awareness, to really make a difference, to hold the physicians to certain standard of care, to be able to really give back and take care of them.
So, that was great, and it translated even later in my life, throughout my other positions within healthcare that I held, and I don't regret that.

Someone asked me one day, they're like, “Do you regret spending 28 years in healthcare and now you're in the event space and the tech space? Do you wish you did this from the beginning?

And I always say, “No, because that journey, that path, led me to where I am today, it made me who I am today. And if I wasn't this person, I wouldn't have been able to do all the things that I'm doing with JabberYak,” so you know, that's kind of made me who I am today, and it's helped teach me along the way to have patience. 

Something I try to have at home with my own family is patience, although I'm not always good at it, but I give myself grace that I'm human and it's okay to make mistakes sometimes and not be patient.

Courtney Stanley  
Yes, yes, it definitely is. I think there's so much value in changing course and. Something, and specifically looking at your career journey, I can find parallels between your journey and mine, working in different industries, but then also now working in the same industry. 

I find so much value in my own journey, where there were different turns that either I took or I was pushed into or directed toward, with or without agency sometimes, and I think that looking back is always so rewarding, because you're able to really see, not only you know, how it's helped you in certain ways to get to where you are today, but also how it's changed you and how the person that you are today exists because of those turns and those twists that you took along the way. 

So, I actually love that you spent the time that you spent in your former chapter, but then you made this drastic shift into a completely different industry. I think there's a lot of a lot of value there. Yeah,

Shideh Doerr 
Yeah. I mean, I like facing fear, and I think that's something that I wish so many more people would take the chance in life. You only live this life once, right? You don't get a redo. 

So, make it your best life, face your fears, try something new. I mean, what's the worst that's going to happen? You won't succeed, or maybe it doesn't turn out the way you want, but you did succeed in that you tried something, right? I think sometimes people see that as a failure. And when I went into JabberYak, I didn't know that we would get to the point that we are today. I obviously hoped we would, but I didn't know there's no crystal ball, but I would have, even if JabberYak had not gotten to this point, I would have still felt proud that we tried it, you know, we gave it everything we had. 

We tried to enter into this industry that has professionals that have been a part of it since they were 18,19, 20-year-od college grads, whatever. You know, there's people that have been in this industry for 20, 30, 40, years, but it's a great industry to be in.
I have to say, I have been pleasantly surprised, and I have met some of the most wonderful people in my time within the industry. It has been a learning lesson, and people are always so gracious with having patience to help teach me, because I'm not scared to say I don't know. Or, “Hey, what is that? Or what does that mean?” I don't know what I don't know, what that means, or, you know, and it's been great. I mean, the camaraderie and the collaborations have been fantastic.

Courtney Stanley 
I couldn't agree more. I love this industry so much, and I have found it to be just such a warm community where I have invaluable relationships. And whether, you know, I've had them for a decade or I've had them for literally an hour with you, getting to know you more on this call. This industry is full of incredible people. I want to take a step back, and I would love for you to explain what JabberYak is, because let's just assume there are people listening that have never heard of it before. I've never gotten a chance to use it. What is it? What is this experience?

Shideh Doerr
So, let me kind of take a step back and walk through… kind of like build a picture for someone who's listening, right? 
So, if you're walking into a room and there are 100 people or 1,000 people, and it's your first time going there, or you don't know someone, there's an anxiety to it, there's an awkwardness to walking into that room, to standing by yourself. 

And I will say I am an extroverted introvert. So, what that means for me is, on the outside, it looks like it's so easy for me and seamless to spark conversation and interact with people, but it's really—it's daunting—and I'm exhausted at the end of the day because it's a lot for me.

So, what JabberYak is a way for people to engage. So, we built a concept of the seven degrees of interest. We are an engagement technology solution company. We take seven interests that a person has, that they get to select from within our system, and we create visual cues. They are visual cues that can be worn throughout the event on a badge or a button that's connected to your lanyard that you want other people to know about you. 

So, when they automatically see it, it sparks conversation. And there's science behind it. We've actually worked with a team of social psychologists to identify the best ways to network, the most effective ways to network. So, seven is the magical number in the world of networking. So, if you do five or six, that really reduces the probability of really connecting, having good, meaningful conversations with people. And if you get to eight or nine, it's too much, too many words, and the brain can't process it that easily. 

But in addition to the visual cues, we have the technology piece, so we have a web-based app called Connect. Now that we have created that, I like to try and describe it as a user-friendly slack for your event, and it allows people to connect with each other prior to the event. 

So, a great story is, we were recently at Connect Marketplace and we did an activation in Milwaukee, and I had someone reach out to me that I had met before, saying they just had the best experience of their career. And I was like, “Really, please do share.” And he's like, “Well, I was connecting with someone VIA Connect now, and we were messaging back and forth. We had some shared interests with each other, and as we started chatting, we realized we were both in Palm Springs for different events at the same time. And we actually did a meet-up and we had lunch together, and we actually realized we have some business that could overlap together. 

So, we actually closed two deals before we even got to connect marketplace.

Courtney Stanley  
Wow, right? Kind of cool.

Shideh Doerr
It's crazy, yeah, I know. I mean, those stories to me warm my heart. It's feeling that sense of connectedness. I mean, everyone's looking for human connections and just bonding with someone on professional things, like topics you'd want to learn more about or talk about.

While those are great, we all need, from a neuroscience perspective, a brain break when we're at conferences. And that's what jab react gives you. It gives you a brain break. I mean, it just gives you that ability to find someone else in the room that you can have a conversation with about something that you're passionate about. And it's not work-related or professional development, it's just personal, and how fun is that? 

Me, you and I got to talk about Detroit before we jumped on this. And to me, that was like the best brain break of my day. On calls all day, right? It's just fun. It was just fun to talk about Detroit and some of the things that we have in common and where you're living…and yeah, so that's JabberYak in a nutshell. 

I mean, we're just there to help build those human connections and help people have meaningful conversations that just jump starts it for them.

Courtney Stanley  
I think that that is awesome. And I have to say, I have gotten a chance to wear the button, the JabberYak button, and I always have so much fun picking out my seven interests. I feel like the one interest that I think stayed consistent on every button that I've worn has been wine. 

I was trying to think back. I'm like, what have I put? I've put beach bum, I've put wine, I've put family, I've put entrepreneur. I'm like, I can actually remember most of the ones I think I put on there, but I think the one that has stayed consistent has always been wine or foodie.

Shideh Doerr
Okay, so what kind of wine do you like? Do you have a favorite go-to?

Courtney Stanley  
Okay, so I tend to enjoy reds more than others. I go for a dry wine.
Courtney Stanley 

Okay, gosh, I have to say, I love a good dry blend. And I have been very into Italian wines lately. I also love French wine though, too. But, yeah, I've been very into Italian wines lately.

Shideh Doerr  
Chianti is my favorite. I love chianti and a good Bordeaux.

Courtney Stanley 
I could also go for good Bordeaux. See, yeah, French and Italian. Those are my ones.

Shideh Doerr 
Yeah, well, and it's funny, because I think my consistent thing, as you can imagine, I have lots of different name tags and buttons and badges and office name plates and virtual backgrounds with my job stuff on there. And t-shirt. I'm actually wearing my t-shirt today. You can't see it, but I'm wearing it. 

But I think the consistent things that there's three that are always consistent: it's paddling, music lover and designing—ooh, ooh…design from Detroit—yeah, designing. But being from Detroit, music lover and paddling, because I love the water, so it just kind of makes sense.

Courtney Stanley
Yeah, yeah. Music has been on mine before, too. Music lover or concert-goer. I feel like there's a concert option, too, but either way, you guys have to bring JabberYak to your events, first of all, because it's amazing, but if it's already at the events you're attending, take advantage, because it is actually really fun and it's a great conversation starter, for sure.

Something that you said when you were talking about working with a team of social psychologists is you were talking about how they were able to provide insights into the best networking practices. And I'll make this a little bit more narrow. You had mentioned that you are maybe a little bit more introverted, but you present as an extrovert; you get the job done, you go in, you have great conversations, you're bubbly, you're vibrant, and then you maybe retreat for a little bit of reset time. What are the tools or tips that you've learned or that you've experienced that you would recommend for people who are also feeling that social anxiety or just are heavily introverted, and how can they feel a little bit more comfortable and open up when they're attending networking events?

Shideh Doerr 
Yeah, yeah. I mean, those are great. That's a great question. I mean, what I would say is, you know, first of all, take a deep breath when you walk in right? Start off right there. If you're starting to feel anxiety just walking up through those doors, take a deep breath. You know, it's not the end of the world. It's going to be okay, you know, give it your best effort, and put one foot in front of the other, and just take it in. 

When you walk into the room, take it in, walk it around, look through the people, see what's around. Kind of get the lay of the land. I always like to try to then start honing in on a visual cue, right? 

So, if there isn't a JabberYak to provide that visual cue for me, I have always looked for that visual cue. Look for maybe someone's wearing a cool t shirt with, you know, a concert. Like, if someone's wearing a journey t-shirt, believe me, I am walking straight up to that person, and we are going to start talking about journey because I am a journey lover. 

But, you know, sometimes it'll be something about shoes, like someone's wearing a pair of Roth’s shoes, and that to me is a conversation starter, because it's unusual. It's recycled plastic, it's kind of cool. It's trying to find that connection, I think. 
Don't go straight to the bar. Don't sit staring at your phone, because people aren't going to walk up to you if you're staring at your phone. You know, make that effort. But then also give yourself some breaks. You know, it's okay to have breaks built into your conference day, and even if the conference is packed from 7 a.m. with breakfast all the way through the evening reception and even the free time, there's all these activities, and you feel like your employer needs you to be at all these things—you do need to give yourself a break, whatever that looks like. Maybe it's just going for a walk. I mean, I did that. I had a month where I was on the road, and I was at four conferences back-to-back in a matter of two weeks, and I think I was going to lose my mind.

And I had an hour and a half break, and a bunch of people were heading to the bar to hang out, and they're like, “Come with us. Come with us.” And I was like…I felt guilty, and I was about to say, “Okay, I will meet up with you guys later. I gotta go get some fresh air.” And I ran back to my room, changed really quick, put on my tennis shoes, and I walked and I had my earbuds in my ear, and I was listening to my music and jamming out to my, you know, Journey, and came back feeling so energized and recharged. 
And that's me, right? That's what I like. Maybe someone needs to go into the exercise room and lift weights, or maybe someone wants to go in the pool and sit in the hot tub or go swim some laps. I mean, whatever it is that is something that you enjoy. I mean, carve out, even if it's 15, 20 minutes to have that for yourself. 

I mean, maybe you like a really good cup of coffee. Go spend $5 at Starbucks, get that cup of coffee and go sit somewhere where no one's going to bother you and enjoy that cup of coffee. That's your kind of meditation reset, right? 
So, you gotta find that. What do you do to reset?

Courtney Stanley  
I was just thinking about the things that I have done in the past and the things that I do now. I remember when I first started working. This is the first real job that I had out of school, and I was so socially intimidated working at this event, and I just went and I hid in the bathroom for like, 10 minutes, like, okay, just shove myself in a stall, and just, like, took, you know, a little breather, and then went back out and just kind of reset. 

And I actually see people do this all the time, and you probably do, too. And I'm sure other people see it, too, where you're at conferences and you see people just kind of chilling in the stall. I'm, like, “Yep, been there.” Like, definitely been there, where I'm just a little bit socialed out and just need a break, or I'm just feeling a little bit socially anxious and need to, you know, just take a breath, give myself a little pep talk, and go back out. I would say.

At this point, the way that I unwind, especially if it's at the end of a conference, I am perfectly happy saying no thank you to the extra hangouts and stuff, because I have realized that I'm just not going to show up as my best self. If I don't have the right amount of social energy, then I'm actually probably going to show up in a way that damages relationships or first impressions, rather than actually just genuinely building relationships and having good conversations.

So, I'm perfectly happy to say no and just head back and get sleep or, you know, go to the gym or order Indian food and lay in bed watching some trash TV show, which my sister knows is, like, my conference go to, when I'm dying, like, that's, that's my life. Go to, yeah, that is my life. Go to, actually, Indian or Thai trash TV sweatpants. Like, that's, yeah, that's the move for me. Oh yeah.

But even today, like I was in between meetings, and I just, I stepped outside and I just sat in the sun for 10 minutes and just changed my environment up and walked back in and just felt different, felt better, more energized. So I love that advice, and I appreciate that you ask the question, what is it that you enjoy to do? Or what do you enjoy doing? Because I think looking at it in a way that not only allows you to rest, but also gives you a chance to re energize, because it's something you enjoy doing. I like that. I haven't looked at it like that before.

Shideh Doerr  
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's really important, and it's, I mean, I think people don't do that enough, right? And you need to, you need to find what it is you enjoy to do and give it for you. It's, you know, watching trash TV like I'm all about Bravo and room skills. Yes night. I mean, if I can get 90 day fiancé on the TV while I'm traveling to so my Yes, and I'll take a 90 day, the other way, all around, whatever. Oh, yeah.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Courtney Stanley
Take inside out, upside down, yes, yeah, I love that.

Shideh Doerr  
Yeah. I think it's you know, and it's you know, I mixed in. We met for the first time in person at meetings today in Boise, right? And at that event, it was great. There were a lot of events and what I ended up and they were amazing with me, because I said, Hey, I've got a lot of family here. Do you mind if I cut out a little early here and there and meet up with my family and connect with them? And they were like, absolutely yes. And they were so super supportive. And it was nice to hang out with my peers and hang out and grab a drink with them and get some dinner, and then it cut out a little earlier and go back to the hotel, meet up with my family on the rooftop bar, and then they would leave, and then I'd hang out with everyone again at the conference. And that to me, charged my battery, and it helped me, because it gave me some balance. I was able to incorporate family time with the conference. And my son went with me on that trip too. So it was just a lot of fun to, you know, take my family, like my family's coming with me to IMAX, unfortunately for them, but I'm excited that my boys and my husband are coming with me to Vegas, so that when I come back to the room, I'll have them there and I can kind of disconnect from the big, crazy conference and have some family time built into it. Yeah, so people can do that too. That's important, you know, maybe travel with your family and, you know, not feel like you have to be at all the social things. Don't do the dinner if you don't want to, and go have dinner with your family. It's okay.

Courtney Stanley 
It is okay. And I appreciate this conversation so much, because I think a lot of people would struggle with feeling like that's okay, you know, especially at a show like IMAX, where there is, you know, a dozen, there are a dozen, at least, happy hours happening every single, you know, minute of the afternoon and into the evening, there it's, it's impossible to get to everything, but you feel like you need to do as much as you possibly can. So I love that just hearing like it's okay, it's okay to take a break, it's okay to step away, it's okay to have dinner with someone outside of the conference. It's okay. I think people need to hear that,

Shideh Doerr  
yeah, because I think so many times too people make you feel guilty, right?

Courtney Stanley 
Oh yeah, please

Shideh Doerr  
everyone, and you're appreciative for the invitation, right? Totally appreciative. It's so nice. But you know you gotta do you and you gotta do what's right for you, because at the end of the day, you know it's your body, and you know your body best, and you know what you need, and you know what you need to reset, and you don't want to run yourself down and burn out. And I'm not saying I do this perfectly every time, because I will tell you, recently, in the last month and a half, I did go to a conference, and I was burning myself out because I was bouncing from conference to conference with no breaks, and go, go, go, go, go. And we were sponsoring and I flew home. Um, and I could not the flight. Could not land fast enough, like I never felt like I wanted to undo my seat belt and lay in the aisle, but I wanted to undo my seat belt and lay in the aisle like I was not okay. And I got home, and sure enough, the next day, we're all saying we didn't feel well, and by that evening, we all tested positive for COVID, my entire team, yeah. And you know, you get run down. And so that was awakening for me that like, hey, you've fallen off the bandwagon. You gotta get back on the wagon and get back into making sure you carve out time for yourself, making sure you reset. So that's the other thing. Like, if you fall off the wagon, it's okay. When you realize it, get back on. You know, maybe you've gone to a couple conferences and you didn't make time for yourself. Well, when you realize that, open your eyes, hit the reset button and start making time for yourself.

Courtney Stanley 
Yeah, and I think that's actually not only a great piece of advice for wellness and for taking care of yourself, but it's also, I think that that ties back to the advice that you were giving to just be a happier, more peaceful, healthier networker, you know, like, if you're not feeling great, or you don't have the energy, you're not going to engage as well. So I think it's, it's it all ties together. It really, really does. Yeah,

Shideh Doerr 
I mean, you just have to put yourself first, and if you're not well, then you're not putting your best foot forward anyway, right?

Courtney Stanley  
Agreed, yeah, and don't worry about the shame and the guilt, because people will guilt you to come out and shame you for, you know, going to bed at, you know, a reasonable time, but it's not as late as other people, and that's okay too. Like it's okay let the people do their own thing, and you do you

Shideh Doerr  
well. And you know, that's a big problem for me, because I am a pleaser. So it is a big problem for me. It's something that I struggle with, and it's not just with my colleagues or peers. It's something I struggle with, even to be candid at home, you know, I'm trying to please my children, I'm trying to please my husband, I'm trying to please my dad, I'm trying to please my friends. While I'm on the road, traveling. Have no time for myself. It's like whatever spare time I have. Sometimes I feel like I have to do everything for everybody, and sometimes I have to remind myself, like, give yourself grace. It's okay that, hey, this kid's lunch money ran out. They're still going to give him lunch. He'll just have a negative balance, and when you get to it, you will add money back to the lunch money account, like, breathe through it. He's not going to go starving like he's good. Yes,

Courtney Stanley  
I think that's so relatable, though, especially in this industry where people, I mean, a lot of people's role is literally to serve. It's to serve others. And it's a lot of times that means taking a back seat. And sometimes, you know, those conversations in those environments come with people pleasing and not setting the right boundaries or not, you know, taking care of yourself. And this is an industry that I think has far too much experience with exactly what you just described. So I think it's helpful to hear that, you know, you do take that second to take a step back and remind yourself that it's okay. The world has not ended. It's okay. But I do think it's helpful for people to also hear that, you know, you don't have it all together. I don't have it all together like everybody's just trying their best. People pleasing is real. Setting boundaries is work, and it gets easier, but it's it takes time.

Shideh Doerr
Yeah. I mean, my favorite word, if you ask my team, and they, a couple of the members of my team will cringe, is pivot, right? Whether it's professional or personal, I feel like in life, you have to pivot. And if it's something's not working, pivot, just figure out what is going to work and do that. I mean, it's, I think we try so hard to be so many things and to wear so many hats and always say yes, right? But sometimes it's okay, like you said earlier, to say no. Like, thank you so much. Oh, my God, that sounds like so much fun. You know, I'm so sorry. I'm not gonna make it though. Like, and it's there is there should not be shame, you know. But on the same note, when we are asking to not be shamed, we need to make sure as people, we don't shame. Mm, hmm, you know, yes, treat others the way you want to be treated.

Courtney Stanley  
Yep, exactly, exactly. Yeah. Okay. This has been an amazing conversation. Conversation, it really has been. It's been such a joy getting to just learn more about you, and I feel like I'm spoiled, because I got to talk to you and learn more about you, even before we hopped on this conversation recording together. So of course, thank you. But I also would love to just give you a little more space to share any final words of wisdom or advice or encouragement that you would like to leave with our listeners today, that they'll think about in the days and weeks to come.

Shideh Doerr  
Yeah, I think when I think back to some of the best advice ever given to me, you know, I had someone once say to me, if you're going to come forward with the problem, bring a solution, right? And I apply that to every aspect of my life, both my professional and my personal. I mean, there's so many times when my husband, oh, God, he's going to kill me if he hears me say this, but stay louder exactly. I just got louder too.

Courtney Stanley  
I'll say, oh, you know, why.

Unknown Speaker  
Are the kids this? The

Shideh Doerr  
kids don't go to bed. I can't get them to go to bed every night, stay up or I'm the cook. We make breakfast every morning. You know, always complaining, and I'm always like, God, you know, what is the solution? Like? Stop nagging me with problems. Like, what is the solution? Let's find a solution. Let's work through this. And, you know, it's the same with my kids. You know, why do I have to do this? It's so stupid. I'm like, well, what's the solution? How would you like to handle this? And I do the same thing with my team. I hold them to the same standards. And I would say, everything in life, right? Spin it positively. You know, find the solution. Don't be part of the problem. Like, push forward. Move forward. Always when you know you and I said it before we jump down this one foot in front of the other, and that's how you gotta face life, and especially in this industry, one foot in front the other. Because things sometimes, no matter how great of a planner you are this industry, things happen, you know, like, like, right now you look at Florida, like, all these people who have all these events planned in Florida, and all the flooding that's happening and power outages, like, what are you going to do? You can't control it. Just move forward. Like, take a deep breath. Figure it out. The world won't end. It's all going to be good.

Courtney Stanley 
It's all going to be good. I think those are all going to be good. The perfect words to close out today's conversation, it's all good. It's all going to be good. Thank you so much. This has been so great. I appreciate you sharing your story, and, of course, so much knowledge with us today and audience, thank you guys for listening. Thanks for tuning in. Share what you learned from this episode with us on social media by following at meetings today and at Courtney on stage, and be sure to never miss an episode by subscribing to dare to interrupt on any major podcast platform. Choose your own happiness, connect authentically and keep daring to interrupt my friends until next time you